丹麥的臺灣壹角 TAIWAN CORNER

摘要：臺灣壹角

有位丹麥人很有趣，他在丹麥設立了一個名為「臺灣壹角」TAIWAN CORNER的組織，專門介紹並關注臺灣議題。

他叫麥可丹尼爾森（Michael Danielsen），是這個機構的主席。
這個外國人看臺灣看兩岸，有近距離的清晰，更有遠距離的超越，非常值得我們引以為鑑!
許多看法，我們早已心中有數，但是如果連老外都這麼明白，臺灣人若還迷糊，那就無藥可醫了。

--鄒景雯

源自：鄒景雯部落格


我問︰創立臺灣壹角的動機？
Q: Can you introduce the motivation for establishing Taiwan Corner in Denmark?
麥可答︰有個星期五的晚上，我和一些好朋友正在享受品嘗紅酒，我對他們分享了我個人對臺灣的興趣與看法，在此之前，我已經針對臺灣議題在報上寫過不少文章，我的好朋友們也經常挑戰我對政治的看法及理念，當天我起了想要組織臺灣壹角的念頭。
我們經常聽到輿論界、政治家及教授對一個中國政策的單方面論調，就好像臺灣只不過是棋盤裡的一顆棋可以任人使喚移動，卻完全不用考慮臺灣人本身的想法，更嚴重的是那些人缺乏對臺灣歷史及現實狀況的基本知識。
A:Taiwan Corner came to my mind a late Friday evening while I was enjoying a glass of good red wine with some close friends who share my interest for Taiwan. I had already been writing articles about Taiwan in the newspapers, and in my political life I had been provoked several times like my friends. We had to listen to one-sided and highly respected commentators, politicians and professors talking about the one-China policy like Taiwan is just a brick in a game chess that you can move around without thinking about the people of Taiwan. It is even worse that they appear to lack basic knowledge of Taiwanese history and current affairs.
例如，在丹麥有一個受人高度肯定及尊敬的漢學家曾經提到，臺灣人是中國人，因為他們講中文，因此就這邏輯推論，臺灣應該是屬於中國的一部分。這樣的論調當然是荒謬的，若此，新加坡也應該是中國的一部分了。
臺灣壹角想向世界提供有關臺灣更好、更正確的資訊，我們認為自己應該可以做得更好，我們在這方面的努力已有滿不錯的成效。
In order to understand the level, let me give you an example. A highly respected sinologist in Denmark once said that Taiwanese are Chinese because they speak Chinese, and thus that is logic that Taiwan shall be part of China. This is of course absurd. If we use this kind of logic, then Singapore should also be a part of China.
We were convinced that we could do a much better job and give a more correct picture of Taiwan, and we have rather successful doing this.
臺灣的議題凸顯西方的虛偽，從臺灣的議題可以看出歐盟及美國政府在道德及政治上的衝突與矛盾。布希總統支持民主及人權，但只是某種程度的支持，在他們心裡雖然支持臺灣，但他們在政治層面的現實主義使他們對中國的施壓感到害怕。
我強烈的相信普遍性的基本人權與民主，我個人也相信臺灣人自己絕對有選擇臺灣自由及獨立的權力。
Taiwan displays the hypocrisy of the West. The reason is that Taiwan put the European Union and US governments in a moral and political dilemma. Both support democracy and human rights but only to a point. In their hearts they support Taiwan but their pragmatic politics drags them to China which they are afraid of.
I have a strong believer in the universality of human right and democracy. Personally I believe that the people of Taiwan have the right to choose a free and independent Taiwan.

問：你對二次政黨輪替後的臺灣有何觀察，特別在兩岸關係上的變化？

Q:About the political parties' changing after May in Taiwan, what are your opinions and observation? Especially about cross-strait relations' changing?

答：我很高興看到臺灣再次和平的政黨輪替，這是民主的一部分，然而問題是臺灣還不是一個正規的民主體制，臺灣主要的政治人物對臺灣的未來沒有一個共同的理念。在丹麥，我們沒有這樣的基本問題。
除了經濟政策的意識形態，這次政權的轉移及改變其實寓含了更深遠的意義，可以意味著臺灣更趨近中國、或是更進一步走向獨立之路。但從當今的政府看來，臺灣很清楚的是在加速向中國靠攏。

A:I am happy to see a peaceful change of government in Taiwan for the second time. That is a part of democracy. The problem however is that Taiwan is not a normal democracy because the main politicians do not share a common future for Taiwan. Denmark does not have such a fundamental problem. Therefore, a change of government means a lot more than economic policies and ideology. It means that Taiwan is moving closer to China or moving closer to independence. With the current government Taiwan is clearly moving fast toward China.

兩岸對談是好事，包括我在內都樂意看到兩岸關係正常化的對談，但人們不同意的是臺灣要做多少的讓步以及談判的條件是什麼？這整個對談都使人感到擔心，現階段的談判完全建立在所謂的九二共識上，就是臺灣和中國都同意一中的原則，基本上這陳述了臺灣是中國的一部分，並且以這個為基礎點作為談判原則。如此只會降低臺灣走向真正獨立的機會，也與那些不希望臺灣成為中國一部分的臺灣人意願相左。

All serious politicians like to see dialog and normalization of the relationship between China and Taiwan. This includes me. What people disagree about is how many concessions do you like to make and what shall be the terms of negotiations. The whole foundation of these talks is worrying. The current negotiations are based on the so-called 1992 consensus where both Taiwan and China agrees that there is one China. This is fundamental. You actually state that Taiwan is a part of China and use this as a starting point of negotiations. This weakens Taiwan’s sovereignty and runs against the wishes of the Taiwanese people who do not want to be a part of China.

丹麥及歐盟國家絕對支持臺海兩岸的對談，他們相信現今的關係是健康的，是為了共同的好處而努力改進的，大家都強烈希望臺灣和中國可以獲得和平，然而千萬不可犯錯及給予錯誤的解釋。他們並不擔心臺灣人與中國有良好的關係，丹麥及其他歐洲國家並沒有改變「一中原則」，如果臺灣議題可以解決，他們也樂觀其成，但他們並不鼓勵或支持依循香港模式做為解決臺灣問題的方法。

It is my clear impression that Denmark and the EU supports dialog between Taiwan and China and they have a strong believe that the current relation is healthy and improving for the common good. There is strong hope that Taiwan and China will obtain peace. However, do not make a mistake and a wrong interpretation. They are not that concerned about the Taiwanese people as with good relations with China. Denmark and the other European countries have not changed their one-china policy. They will be happy if the Taiwan problem disappears and they will not mind a Hong Kong solution for Taiwan.

我可以理解，臺灣人投票決定讓國民黨執政是基於希望獲得更好的經濟狀況，而且馬總統也承諾他會堅持保護臺灣。如果我們看現在的狀況，由於全球性的金融風暴，臺灣的經濟情況持續惡化，政府並無法掌握及控制，馬也未完全履行保護臺灣的承諾,必定有許多的臺灣人覺得被背叛、有受騙的感覺。

For many reason Taiwanese people voted for a better economy during a KMT government. I can understand this, and Ma also promised a pro-Taiwan policy. So there existed many good reasons for voting for Ma and KMT. If we look at the situation now, the economy is deteriorating but the government is not in full control because it is also a global issue. However, Ma has total control of his Taiwan and China policy. So why is he not following his promise of a pro-Taiwan policy? A lot of people must feel betrayed.

問：中國陳雲林十一月來臺訪問，臺灣發生強烈的街頭示威，做為一個外國人看到了什麼？

Q:Chen Yunlin's visiting Taiwan in November , but there were many strong demostration and protesting during Mr. Chen's visiting. What do you see from this event as a foreigner? Is there anything you like to remind us?

答：臺灣在過去六個月來的確有改變。若將陳的拜訪以臺灣被孤立的議題看待，我們很樂意看到兩岸的對談。然而，奸巧的詭計總會在對話或和約的內容細節裡出現，我所看到的是臺灣被隔離、開始漸漸地失去獨立，並被國際間批評。我現在所看到的臺灣已經不是我以往所認識的臺灣了。

I see a Taiwan that has changed in the last 6 months. Looking at the visit as an isolated event, it is pleasure to see dialog between China and Taiwan. However, the tricky things are always found in the details. And what I see is a Taiwan that is divided, loosing sovereignty and being criticized internationally. What I see now it not the Taiwan I used to know.

九二共識，這是一個政策上的改變。同時大家也看到其他類似的改變只為了取悅中國而做。例如，郵政的名字在馬總統上任後再次改名。陳並未在會面時稱呼馬「總統」，針對稱謂的問題，我認為不與陳雲林會面或許會來得更好，因為那會造成日後中國對臺灣元首的誤稱。

The 1992 consensus is a fundamental change in policy as I have mentioned earlier. But you see similar changes in regards to please China when the postal system changed name and when President Ma is not to being addressed by his official title. Because of the title issue, it would have been better not to meet Chen Yunlin because it may be misused later by China.

在陳的訪問期間，我一直被臺灣警察強制從臺灣人民手中奪取臺灣國旗的事件所煩惱，國際間已經不接受臺灣的國旗了，但是你們不能在臺灣自己的土地上也做出同樣錯誤的示範。另一個例子便是眾所週知當唱片行在播放臺灣之歌時，卻被警察強制禁止，以及對記者曖昧的規則，在在都顯示不尋常。

During the visit, I have been deeply disturbed by the police taking national flags from Taiwanese. The world does not accept your national flag and now you cannot show it in Taiwan. This is disturbing. Also, the famous incident about the record store that was prohibited from playing Taiwanese music and the fuzzy rules for journalists appears unusual for Taiwan.

整個事件看起來似乎跟著中國音樂跳舞，遠比那些以臺灣為家為念的臺灣人民來得更重要。以國外的眼光來看，我們很難理解中國如何可以幫助臺灣的經濟？特別是臺灣的商業活動遷離，在過去八年臺灣與中國間的經濟整合已有具體的擴張，這些事實是眾所皆知的。我個人的建議是臺灣要更專注在對臺灣的知識、經濟、創造力，教育員工使得他們有能力接受新工作，並著重在更廣的出口貿易上。

It seems more important to dance to the music of China instead of the people of Taiwan who consider Taiwan their home. From abroad it is hard to see why China should save Taiwan economically when it is well known that Taiwanese businesses are moving out of China and the economic integration between China and Taiwan during the last 8 years has already expanded significantly. My suggestion is to focus much more on Taiwan’s knowledge economic, creativity, educate unemployed such that they can take new type of jobs and focus more broadly on export.

臺灣一直都對自己的民主引以為傲。但是臺灣現在卻被「暴力」所批評，國際組織與個人團體都不斷譴責臺灣在陳雲林來訪期間的言論自由及警察逮捕人民的行為。就連國際特赦組織也開始發出譴責的聲音。
像這樣的批評，臺灣必須以一種高度嚴肅的態度去面對，並以此做為改進情況的警告，唯有如此才會使臺灣在世界有更好的形象。最好的批評都是來自那些對你們做公開及誠實言論的朋友們。

Taiwanese are proud of Taiwan’s democracy. But now Taiwan is being criticized for violating for example press freedom. Also, both before and after the visit of Chen Yunlin, international organizations and individuals have been criticizing press freedom, arrests and the actions from police during the Chen Yunlin’s visit. Even Amnesty International has been vocal. This type of critic you have to take extremely serious and use it to improve the conditions because this will give you a much better impression in the world. The best critique comes from your friends who speak open and honest to you.

馬總統認為中國包括大陸地區及臺灣地區，而其他人則在談論臺灣獨立，因此其觀點並不能成為臺灣的軸線。
有很多外國人和協會最近都在觀察臺灣，身為亞洲的一個民主國及自由之星的臺灣，你們千萬不能失去臺灣的民主標誌。

Ma is talking about a one China consisting of a China area and a Taiwan area. Others are talking about independence. The division cannot be more fundamental, can it?
There are a lot foreigners and associations watching Taiwan these days. Do not lose your brand as a democratic and free star in Asia.

問：馬總統也說達賴喇嘛目前在時機上不適宜訪臺，你又怎麼看這件事？

Q:President said that it is not a properly time for De'lai lama to visit Taiwan, what is your opinion about this?

答：達賴喇嘛當然可以拜訪臺灣，所有其他民主國，像丹麥或是歐盟都接受他的訪問。馬總統說現在的時機不適宜達賴喇嘛來訪，我認為這樣的言論根本就不應該出現。中國永遠都會有抱怨，如果馬總統個人對達賴喇嘛有意見，他可以選擇不與他見面，但馬總統應該說臺灣是個民主國家，因此歡迎他到臺灣來。這已經不是馬總統第一次在選舉前後言行不一的表現了。
自由民主國家，包括臺灣，都必需秉持在基本價值上以引導國家走向民主的未來。

A:Of course the De'lai lama shall be able to visit Taiwan. Other democratic nations like Denmark and EU accept his visits. Ma says that it is not a good time to visit in the current situation. My answer is that is never good. China will always complain. If Ma has troubles with him then he could state that he will not meet him but say that Taiwan is democratic and therefore he is welcome to Taiwan. This is not the first time that Ma says something before the election and act opposite after the election.
Democratic nations, including Taiwan, have to stick to the fundamental values in order to lead the way to a democratic future.

問：馬總統提出「外交休兵」政策，你如何評論？

Q:President Ma also mentioned about”Diplomatic Truce " , How do you criticize about this policy? Do you think it can get the positive response from China?

答：臺灣並不會因此獲得更多的國際空間，這完全是天真的想法。原因是臺灣是一個民主國家，下一任總統有可能是來自民進黨的候選人，中國不可能冒著讓民進黨籍總統以擴張國際認同來獲取臺灣更多國際談判的風險。

A:Taiwan will not get more international space. That is totally naïve. The reason is that Taiwan is a democracy and maybe the next president will be from the DPP. China cannot run the risk that a DPP president will use any expansion of international recognitions to obtain more international recognition. This runs against the wishes of China.

然而，依目前的情勢看來，臺灣極有可能在二○○九年與ＷＨＯ會有更親近的關係，希望這對臺灣的健康醫療系統有益，但這並不會改進臺灣的國際空間，因為臺灣並不被承認是一個國家或類似國家等級的認同。有些人或許會將拉近ＷＨＯ的關係視為一個大勝利，但是這對國際的認同並不會有太大的改變。
中國不會停止對臺灣施壓，直到臺灣成為中華人民共和國的一部分為止。

However, it seems that Taiwan will get closer relations with WHO in 2009. This will hopefully be good for the health system in Taiwan but it will not improve Taiwan’s international space since you will not be recognized as a country or something that even resembles this. Some will interpret close relation to WHO as a big victory but it will not really matter much in terms of international recognition. The West will try to support you in this.
The main point is that China will not stop pressuring Taiwan until Taiwan is a part of the People Republic of China.

問：中國希望與臺灣簽訂ＣＥＰＡ、和平協議，企圖在經濟、政治上統合臺灣，你怎麼看？

Q: China is hoping to sign CEPA and peace agreement in order to reunite the economy and politics in Taiwan. What do you look at this?

答：如果臺灣可以與世界其他國家建立ＦＴＡ，臺灣將會有更好的前景。我確信ＣＥＰＡ並不會對臺灣建立任何的ＦＴＡ有任何幫助。與ＦＴＡ相較，ＣＥＰＡ並不是一種國與國的對等協定。
和平協定只有在中國願意放棄可笑的反分裂國家法，並容許臺灣人民對臺灣未來具自由選擇權的原則下，才值得臺灣去簽署。移除對臺的武器飛彈與否並沒有多大的關係，因為那些飛彈可以很容易重新設置。

It will be better if Taiwan can establish FTA with any country in world. I am convinced that a CEPA will not help Taiwan getting any FTA. CEPA is not a country to country agreement in contrast to FTA.
A peace agreement is only worth a signature if China abolishes the ridiculous anti-secession law and allows the Taiwanese people a free choice for Taiwan’s future. A removal of missiles does not matter much since they can be easily reestablished.

問：臺灣被摒除在聯合國之外，遭到孤立，兩岸的國力又十分懸殊，在爭取國際支持下，臺灣應該如何做得更好？

Q:Taiwan is always excluded and isolated from UN. There is a big gap between two sides of the Strait when talking about the "country power". How can Taiwan to be better in order to gain the international supporting?

答：臺灣和中國間的確有一個大的落差，而且這情況將不會有所改變。中國永遠不會允許臺灣獨立，除非中國成為一個民主國家，中國會不斷地壓抑臺灣直到臺灣對中國投降。
如果中國成為民主國，中國有可能會講述正確的臺灣故事。但是直到今天，我所讀到中國出版的歷史書及教導中國人有關臺灣部分的歷史，都是錯誤的謊言。遺憾的是，許多臺灣人民即使有管道了解真相，但他們並不知道自己的歷史。

Yes, there is a big gap between the two sides of strait and that will not change. China will never allow you to be independent until China becomes democratic – if that happens. China will continue to strangle Taiwan until you surrender to China. If China becomes democratic, it may happen very unexpectedly or very late such that I will not be able to experience it. In that case, the Chinese maybe told the right story about Taiwan. As it is today, I have read Chinese history books, Chinese are told a big lie about Taiwan’s history. Unfortunately, many Taiwanese do not know they own history even though they have access to the truth.

關於獲取國際的支持，我想到兩點。第一，臺灣內部必須自己對臺灣的未來取得一個認同。但是今日的臺灣很清楚地劃分為兩個對立的局面，這個只會削弱臺灣本身。如果臺灣可以團結一致，你們將會更強壯。第二，臺灣必須堅信並改進臺灣的民主及人權。唯有如此做，臺灣才會獲得丹麥人及歐盟國家的認同，而且臺灣目前所接受不平等的對待才會被看得更清楚。
更具體地說，臺灣需要拓展所有層級國際協會及獨立組織的國際網，如此才能將臺灣推向報紙媒體、各國政府及國際組織。

Two things come to my mind in order to gain international support. First, you have to agree internally about the future of Taiwan. As it is today you are strongly divided, this weakens you. If you are united you are stronger. And the second, Taiwan shall continue to embrace and improve democracy and human rights. Doing this Taiwan will get sympathy from the people of Denmark and EU and it will become clearer that Taiwan is treated unfairly.
More specifically, you have to expand international networks at all levels with international associations and individuals that support Taiwan’s case and can put Taiwan’s forward to newspapers, governments and organizations.

問：臺灣兩大政黨在國家定位，中國政策的方向與策略上，有著明顯歧異，如何整合？

Q: Taiwan's two biggest parties are very different direction about Taiwan's position to China's policies and strategies. As a friend of Taiwan, what are your suggestions?

答：不同政黨政治人物之間的對談，在丹麥已是一個長遠的傳統，臺灣需要更多類似的對談。我希望政治精英或至少那些在政治中被精選的人，有勇氣與對立黨派坐下來對話，並對臺灣的未來有個共同的目標，這樣才會使臺灣團結並使臺灣在國際間獲取更強烈聲音及注意。這也會使你們自己獲得國內自家的和平。
臺灣的未來需從要求臺灣政治人物跨越國民黨及民進黨的界限開始，臺灣人民必須要求政治人物嚴肅認真地以臺灣人民的顧慮點為考量。

Denmark has a long tradition for dialog among politicians across political parties. Taiwan needs more of this kind of dialog. I hope that the political elite or at least some in the political elite will have the courage to sit down across political parties and agree on Taiwan’s future. This will unite Taiwan and Taiwan will gain a much stronger voice and appeal internationally. And you will get peace at home.
My suggestion is that the Taiwanese people demand this and demand that the politicians take the concerns of Taiwanese seriously.

問：你對臺灣還有什麼其他忠告？

10. Is there anything that you like to say ?
答：臺灣的新聞媒體需要扮演社會中的第四股力量，過去八年來的觀察，我多次的訪臺行程，及我所獲得的翻譯文件，很清楚地，臺灣有太多的電視新聞頻道的品質過低，而且過分的偏見，只偏向一方或另一黨的言論報導。我很難理解記者們要如何嚴肅看待他們的工作。
如果臺灣有更好的電視新聞，你們或許可以獲取對重要議題更正確的討論。例如，阿扁的事件就充斥於所有的電視新聞，除了他的事件，臺灣似乎沒有任何阿扁以外的事情發生。但事實上，臺灣或世界上有更多比阿扁更重要的事情。

The Taiwanese news media needs to act as the forth power in the society. My Chinese is very limited but from my observations during the last 8 years, my many visits to Taiwan, and from the translations I have received, it clear to me that Taiwan has too many TV news station with a too low quality and with an extremely biased view to one side or the other party. It is hard for me to understand how journalists can take their work seriously. If you get better TV news you may get a more informed debate about important matters. For instance, A-bian is all over the TV news. It seems that nothing else is happening in Taiwan that A-bian. However, there are more important things than A-bian.




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